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My New Take On Survival Guns
#1
Hoods:



After several experiences over the past few years I've begun to change my take on firearms for survival. Particularly when preparing for a "bug out" type situation. I used to go over the same debates often seen on the net, and consider how many and which weapons and tools I could carry personally and for what purposes they would fulfill. Now, I still believe in having a good selection of fire sticks at home, and I do like the idea of pre caching equipment in potential "long term camping" locations.



In the past few years I have: developed a big problem with my sciatic nerve, added a small child to the family (ok my wife and God did most of that), and also had the chance to experience some primitive and modern trapping and fishing techniques. Not book study but actual experience. The first two have had some negative impact on mobility, though the second has had lots of great postive impacts on life overall. The third has decreased my mental need to plan for hunting to put meat on the table, thus reducing the need for many hunting tools. Not so say I dont' go deer and turkey hunting any more. Still great skills (and tasty too).



Going short distances I might still like to pack s long arm, but for foraging and walking I've got to keep the weight down and keep quiet.



My new take on survival guns is this: If forced to walk somewhere a long distance while periodically toting a small child and other equipment: I'm going to be carrying one firearm a the most. And that will be a defensive handgun. Not knowing what environment we'll be passing through this needs to be concealable (we do have permits). Rather than pack a hunting rifle or shotgun or even a .22lr I'll cut the weight and take a supply of bank line, fishing hooks, monofilament line, and wire. I'd rather not make alot of noise shooting game anyway.



Thanks to Ron Hood for tips in the Urban Survival series, and the Trapping video. Also to Dave Canturbury, now I finally understand the "universal trigger", and know first hand that it will catch food!



Any thoughts?



Strat
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#2
Rule of 3s...



Food is down the list aways...



Pistol is your number one survival gun. You've figured out why.
"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent, but rather the one most adaptable to change."

Charles Darwin



http://www.selfdefenseinitiative.com
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#3
I like your thinking. I am actually building my battery right now. I have been looking at the subject in a modular way. First my home (where weight is not an issue). Then my vehicle (being a Wrangler weight is no issue but space is limited). Finally my person. I am a Backpacker without nerve pains so weight (while ALWAYS being an issue) is flexible. I have replaced a coil of 8mm rope with a Remmington 870. I have settled on a Taurus Judge (for now) which is held in a guide holster. Obviously ammunition weight is my biggest issue. This is where I really like your thoughts on caching heavy items at long term camping spots that are pre-selected. This issue is a struggle and very worth discussing with Hoodlums. -MK
in vino veritas

BadassOutdoors.com
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#4
My two lightweight .22lr pistols are a German made Walther TPH with an alloy frame & a Beretta Model 87BB. The Beretta is more comfortable to shoot, but the Walther almost disaprears in my pocket and the weight is minimal. I once shot a froad - I am not sure if it was a frog or a toad at 30 yards at a downwards angle - with the Walther. I hit it dead center. I skinned it, cleaned it and boiled it up in my canteen cup. It wasn't great, but it was edible.



I am building a Scout style rifle because it will be much lighter than a target rifle.
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#5
Howdy Strat. You mentioned trouble with sciatica. Oh boy. This could be a harbinger of things to come. When this nerve becomes irritated it is incredibly painful (I know, I'm preaching to the choir) and will stop you in your tracks. Untreated this will jeopardize anything you do now or in the immediate future. There is only one remedy to fix it. Sciatica is an ambush waiting to happen.



Back to your question... a handgun is the preferred weapon of choice for ease of carry and weight, and what you choose is entirely up to you. If it works for you then you've got the right one. With little ones in tow there are logistical concerns for their care and comfort plus the needs of your spouse that may be different from yours. However, develope your plan accordingly, be flexible, always have plan B ready for a dynamic operating environment. BTW I am mobilty impaired so I get to stay home while the world falls apart.



You get an A+ for your effort thus far in preparations. I wish you the best.



-sevensix
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#6
<img src='http://www.hoodswoods.net/IVB/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Smile' />



1. Handgun accessible from concealment.



Other firearms can be hidden in packs, other concealment methods but still not as fast to access as a defensive handgun.



Firearms are not the best way to secure food in some environments. You point this out with your mention of "energy Multipliers".



Mick Chesbro does a great job of discussing firearm in his book Wilderness Evasion.



"There is merit to both sides of the argument. I believe the advantage of lightweight and almost universal availability is a very persausive argument for choosing a 22 caliber rifle. However, a full size rifle is perhaps more then we need in a 22. A handgun with an 8 or 10 inch barrel and fitted with a detachable shoulder stock would be ideal in a survival situation. Unfortunately, abusive government regulations make such a set up illegal."
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#7
I like my rifles.



i LOVE my handgun. I take no steps without it, except at work. I holster in the AM, and go about my day. Its just there. So are my reloads.

Get a handgun you like, learn to use it well, carry it everywhere, and life is simpler.

Zen said it we,, the pistol is #1. All else gets left behind.



pair it with a bowie, and i am a happy boy.
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#8
I think one needs to think about being adjustable to the situation. If you set forth one plan of action for all scenarios you'll lose out some benefits from gear that you could have otherwise made good use of. You have to be realistic about the season, location, physical ability, etc. Don't limit yourself to one level of kit. Your home and variable transportation modes should have different kits.



Personally, I wouldn't want to try to make it 3 weeks without food or 3 days without water, regardless of the location. I have a low body fat level, lean body build. If noise wasn't a concern and given the choice between shooting squirrels or one deer, I'll take the deer. In the winter here in the Northeast fishing requires augering the ice. Most peoples minimal BOB doesn't have a axe or other tools to chop through ice. With a few feet of snow, how easy will it be to make a decent shelter with that minimal BOB? Do you have the right tools to get the job done? Some say you should have a kit at your bug out location. Again, what do you do in the winter time, snow, ice and frozen ground to deal with... What happens when you get to that location and your kit is gone?



Your gear should not be static except maybe if you live in a location where nothing changes.
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#9
Keep in mind most folks are very poor pistol shots.
"Aut viam inveniam aut faciam" ~Hannibal~
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#10
[quote name='Swampman' date='31 March 2011 - 05:35 PM' timestamp='1301607344' post='517029']

Keep in mind most folks are very poor pistol shots.

[/quote]





What I have heard is that in a crisis you are half as good as your best day at the range, so practice, practice and practice till your VERY good at the range.



I just do not get to shoot enough boo hoo.



Patricia
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#11
[quote name='Swampman' date='31 March 2011 - 05:35 PM' timestamp='1301607344' post='517029']

Keep in mind most folks are very poor pistol shots.

[/quote]





A three day school fixes that problem.
"May you live in interesting times." A Chinese curse



Amos 5:12-14
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#12
[quote name='Keating' date='31 March 2011 - 11:42 AM' timestamp='1301586146' post='516966']

I like your thinking. I am actually building my battery right now. I have been looking at the subject in a modular way. First my home (where weight is not an issue). Then my vehicle (being a Wrangler weight is no issue but space is limited). Finally my person. I am a Backpacker without nerve pains so weight (while ALWAYS being an issue) is flexible. I have replaced a coil of 8mm rope with a Remmington 870. I have settled on a Taurus Judge (for now) which is held in a guide holster. Obviously ammunition weight is my biggest issue. This is where I really like your thoughts on caching heavy items at long term camping spots that are pre-selected. This issue is a struggle and very worth discussing with Hoodlums. -MK

[/quote]





Lordy why? Go see some of the tests like "Box O' Truth". For the weight and bulk thier are a lots other guns that hit something.
"May you live in interesting times." A Chinese curse



Amos 5:12-14
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#13
gotta agree with abby. It's why I carry my G23 instead of my SP101. 14 shots vs. 5 for the same size and weight, and still less loaded than the Judge weighs empty. Then there's the ammo availability and cost issue.
Steve
  • Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but it can get there real fast.
  • Losing an illusion makes you smarter than finding a truth - Ludwig Borne
  • Always remember the Golden Rule: He who has the gold, makes the rules.
  • This is more fun than beating a tree hugger with a dead baby seal.
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#14
Here's something to consider since you are afflicited with sciatica, a cane or walking stick is in your future. You might consider a course in "stick fighting", a cane is allowed everywhere, even where "weapons" aren't.
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#15
Careful Steve... some may say you are compensating for something with that "high" capacity semiauto.



I agree with Abby too but also keep in mind that if you are starving, cold and miserable, that your shooting ability along with everything else will be heading south. But your level of marksmanship can make a big difference, at least I assume because I've never been in such a dire situation like that. A rifle will generally be easier to hunt and shoot with than a pistol. One exception would be you are too worn and weak to lift a rifle, in that event I doubt you would be too mobile.



I've ran across as much game walking, or even riding a mt bike, as I have stalking and hunting. Nothing says you can't shoot game on your way, I would prefer that then having to actually spend time and precious energy to only hunt. Some people minds are set in stone that you waste tons of energy hunting, which can be true IF you are scouting, but still hunting takes as much energy as sitting on your butt and reading a book. Find a good game trail that cuts across your path, stop for a while if you can afford the time. Again, while you are walking to your destination take any opportunity that presents itself, because you may not get another...
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