Woodsdrummer Signature Series

[george of the J]

Talking external vs. internal frame, my largest capacity pack is a Jansport external frame from the early '80s. I also have a new 80L internal, but I can't quite carry as much as with the external. The internal just doesn't have enough good lashing points. Plus the internal is about a pound heavier. Add to that the sweaty back factor of the internal and I like my old external frame way better.



The Jansport is durable and all the zippers work perfectly still. I hadn't use it for a long time and I was just keeping it around for sentimental value, but then I needed it 2 years ago when I found my new large internal frame wasn't big enough to carry all the crap I wanted. (Of course, when I carry a ton of crap my mileage goes way down nowadays.)











---George

[Guest]

Mr. Stoskopf—



Regarding your “Stump the Trunk” post. With me, it’s more like “Stump the Chump.” But I think I can give a little insight to the Seaway pack you post.



In the 1970s, lots of folks produced frames and packs that mimicked the classic Kelty. I think my first metal-tube external frame was made in Taiwan and I actually got it with Blue Chip Stamps. (Anyone remember those?) It was a truly inferior knockoff, but better than the red-and-silver wooden external frame (pictured earlier) that I’d been carrying. The Seaway looks like one of those knockoffs. Not that it’s terrible—I really can’t say. But back in the day, virtually all of them were inferior to the genuine Kelty. In person I could probably identify it no problem--I still have five (!) old Kelty pack frames, and used to have more. I mean, I humped those things for almost 30 years, so I got to know them pretty good. You have one of my old frames, and my brother has a couple more. Between the knockoff and the first Kelty I had a Camp Trails with a screwed-together frame. Like Misanthrope says, that pooch squeaked with every step.



And a Kelty wasn’t just a static item either—he kept evolving the design, always making them better, not cheaper. As time went on, he incorporated hip belts, covered zippers, better straps and backbands. You mention the extra-wide backband on yours. That wasn’t original either—I put that on, but that was 40 years ago, and I can’t remember if it came off another Kelty pack or something else.



And all Keltys aren’t the same either. The originals were made in Sun Valley, and then Glendale (both in the greater Los Angeles area). This is very near the old Lockheed aircraft plant, and after the war Dick Kelty got most of his aluminum tube from them—those first Kelty packs in the 1950s were probably made out of leftover P-38 Lightning fuselage stringers! He welded up the first frames himself, then got Lockheed welders to moonlight in his shop.



Eventually Kelty sold the company, and while the new packs were produced overseas, for a while they did a good job. I still own one of the 1990s Kelty Super Tiogas—I kept it after I sold off or gave away a lot of my old external frames because it still works. But I have to say, I don’t think the current Keltys are really of the same quality that the originals were, and that’s not just me being nostalgic. Too bad, but time moves on. If I wanted a good external-frame pack now, I’d either buy an old Kelty or (as mentioned previously) a Terraframe (also used). The Terraframes were maybe not as bombproof as a ladder-frame Kelty, but they sure carry nice if you’re using them as a conventional backpack.



Ddennis—



You mentioned the old ALICE pack. Here are some photos for you, and a story. As a packframe I think the ALICE design is pretty poor, but I do have a couple and they are useful. In fact, I used one just a couple of months ago.



I wanted to enter a mountain-bike race, but I don’t have a decent mountain bike. So I borrowed a 20-year-old Klein from a colleague at work. But here’s the problem—I had to transport it 100 miles home on a motorcycle. My solution? I took the wheels off, strapped the frame to the old ALICE pack frame, strapped the wheels to that, and then strapped the frame to my carcass. I must have looked pretty interesting riding down the Hollywood Freeway, but I got the whole mess home.



The bad news? I got my ass kicked in the race (the Hellfire Fat Tire at Camp Pendleton)—the fast kids beat me up and took my lunch money. (I did manage a mid-pack finish that wasn’t totally embarrassing, though.) The good news? A few weeks later I scored a silver medal in the Heartbreak Ridge cross-country run. Sweet! Margaritas tonight! Guess the Nine Fingered Rat Bastard just isn’t high enough up on the evolutionary scale to make the move from running on foot to using something as advanced as a bicycle.



George of the J--



Those old Jansports were pretty good packs. Not my personal favorites, but I know Ron did a little R&D for them decades ago. I used to carry the students' Jansports on Ron's backpacking trips in the CSUN days--I preferred my Kelty, but a lot of women in particular liked the Jansports because they were so adjustable.



(Photos of the bike-on-a-packframe lashupfollow)



--ML

[george of the J]

ML, my first external frame backpack was a Kelty I bought in 1981. Before that I just had a cheap canvas rucksack. I only used the Kelty on one overnight trip and then it was stolen when someone broke into my house.



I would have been happy to replace it with another Kelty, but my brother had a Jansport and recommended it to me because it could stand upright on the ground due to a rigid section of its hip belt system. You could stand it up in camp kind of cabinet-like for easy access to your gear. It seemed like a cool feature to me at the time, so I ended up with the Jansport. Of course, now, the most important feature to me is comfort on the trail, and it's not as big a deal that the pack stands up.



BTW, congratulations on the cross country run. I wish I would have had that kind of fitness even when I was younger.



I was going to use the external frame Jansport as a day pack earlier this year, but I got my truck stuck in the snow (a sorry story--no need for any details) and didn't do the hike. But the reason for the big pack for a day hike was I expected to be taking snowshoes on and off several times as conditions changed on the trail, and it would be easy to strap the snowshoes onto the outside of the pack. Inside I could carry extra insulation in case of an emergency without worrying about getting it wet from the snowshoes.



Anyway, I bought lighter gear for warm weather, including a 2.5 pound internal frame pack, and thought I would never use the old external frame again, but I'm glad I kept the thing now.



---George

[bigbore442001]

One thing that I like and may want to try in the future is the use of an external frame pack as a hunting adjunct.



I know of someone on another forum who handgun hunts predators. He uses his Kelty pack as a hunting seat so he can prop his back and then hold his specialty bolt action pistol with a bipod set up. I saw an image of that and said to myself how neat that is.

[Grizzly Dave]

[quote name='Eric Stoskopf' timestamp='1428838417' post='600302']

I find it odd that the Tatonka pack frame did not come up in my searches because it's right along the lines of what I was looking for. Thanks for that Dave.







Eric

[/quote]



Sorry to take so long to reply Eric, we have been selling our house and buying a new one so I have been slipping a bit on the forum.



I too like the folding shelf, I bought my frame first and it is similar to the Cabella's model, likely made in the same factory. I couldn't find a bag to fit it until I tried the Tatonka bag. They also had the Tatonka frames and they look stronger built, but after thinking on it for a while I prefer the folding shelf.

Capital Iron here in Victoria, B.C. carry them if you decide you want one I can help you get in touch or help you get one if they don't want to ship it. They are pretty big so they will likely do what needs to be done to get it to you.





Griz

[alukban]

I picked up my first and only pack frame last year and it made everything else I had ever tried/used before look stupid. I went with the Paradox system when they first came out last year.



http://paradoxpacks.com/design/



I was going to copy my brother and go with the Kifaru Bikini frame + cargo shelf as a do it all mule but the design ideas of the Paradox sucked me in. They were also going for a fairly low introductory price at the time <img src='http://hoodswoods.net/IVB/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



I've carried some odd shaped stuff with it and do not have that many miles with it but it is always my go to now - even with just a day kit because the system is so light and comfy anyway.

[Grizzly Dave]

Alukban;

That is quite a versatile pack, I'd say it's a keeper.

I have to

1. Get a camera

2. Stop going by myself, so I have someone there to take a photo every now and then.

3. Post those pictures.

I need to retire so I can accomplish all these goals. <img src='http://hoodswoods.net/IVB/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':whistling:' />





Griz

[Deerstalker]

[quote name='Grizzly Dave' timestamp='1429308418' post='600438']



I need to retire so I can accomplish all these goals. <img src='http://hoodswoods.net/IVB/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':whistling:' />





Griz

[/quote]



All the excuses are falling by the wayside Dave, photography might become your next big thing <img src='http://hoodswoods.net/IVB/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banana.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':banana:' /> <img src='http://hoodswoods.net/IVB/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> <img src='http://hoodswoods.net/IVB/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbsup:' />

[Deerstalker]

[quote name='alukban' timestamp='1429307750' post='600436']



I was going to copy my brother and go with the Kifaru Bikini frame + cargo shelf as a do it all mule but the design ideas of the Paradox sucked me in. They were also going for a fairly low introductory price at the time <img src='http://hoodswoods.net/IVB/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



[/quote]



So what's the issue with Kifaru & Mystery Ranch - is it just cost??

[alukban]

I guess I am not as strong as the targeted customer base for Kifaru and MR. I do have some of their stuff and they are awesomely high quality and built tough. The MR hot top will out last any pack I currently have and the Kifaru Scout + mini longs is a great size that may become my EDC. Their generally very rough-use and extreme heavy load builds make them heavy with nothing in them.



I went with the Paradox because of its scalability - down and not up. It had had a lower floor, was more lightweight. It is light enough alone that it doesn't seem silly to carry only an additional 10lbs in it. If the pack frame system is already 10lbs by itself, I'd be looking for something else to carry stuff in. The Paradox frame system is my primary daypack that I could use to haul stuff back with. That was really it - that the packs were heavy to begin with and thus upped my entire packed weight by too big a % if you are trying to go light. I think the hip belt design of the Paradox is also one of its supreme elements. It is actually on the thin side and meant to conform to you for hold. It does not slip.



This 80lbs of Kifaru slips on me. I could not get it tight enough to not slip. I dunno why. Their delta system is great and really sucks loads into the lumbar area but I just could not get the thing adjusted correctly enough. I could strap this entire setup on my Paradox and it will be non-slip and comfy. I am finding that it fits me so well that tge limit of my weight carrying ability is not judged by my hips or shoulders but by my legs - skinny as they are.