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Surviving In A Socialist Society
#46
:::Laughing at Jud:::::: <img src='http://www.hoodswoods.net/IVB/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbsup:' />



Honestly, though, I agree with Jesse again.. there's just really no viable candidate in my opinion.

I'm at a loss.

I voted already, despite my concerns, for the one I figured could do the least damage. :Confusedhrug::

Sad situation, this...



It's pretty much like in the Bible when Lot couldn't find even ONE good man in Sodom!

Maybe we deserve what we get...
#47
[quote name='Annie' post='294082' date='Oct 29 2008, 11:01 AM']It's pretty much like in the Bible when Lot couldn't find even ONE good man in Sodom!

Maybe we deserve what we get...[/quote]

I couldn't agree more. In fact, we are living that out right now, a week before the election. We've ALLOWED our country to sink to this state over the course of 20 years, and it will take more than one Presidential election to build us back up. Blue collar / middle class America needs to start flexing its muscles by getting off its ass, being vocal and voting against new laws, propositions and candidates that do not reflect our views and beliefs (party lines be damned). WE are forever going to be the whipping post for the poor and rich alike until we get our voices and power back.
"Some people think I'm over-prepared, paranoid...maybe even a little crazy. But THEY never met any Precambrian lifeforms, did they?"

- Burt Gummer (Tremors 2)



"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened."

- Norman Thomas, U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate 1940, 1944 and 1948



"Am fear nach gleidh na h-airm san t-sith, cha bhi iad aige 'n am a' chogaidh."

- Scottish proverb (He that keeps not his arms in time of peace will have none in time of war)



"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change."

- Charles Darwin
#48
HAHAHAH, nice one Judd.



I think the least-worst vote is just prolonging the inevitable. At this point, I think the sooner things break, the less the damages will be. It's like pulling a bandaid off fast or slow. It hurts the same either way, but one way the hurt ends quicker.



- Jesse
Welcome to the internet, you're probably taking it too seriously.

What you see is the result of the perspective you choose.

"Knowledge isn't wisdom unless it's empirical." - My own damn self.

Grand Rapids Michigan
#49
[quote name='muleskinner' post='293886' date='Oct 28 2008, 07:23 PM']Bullshit. Don't ever give them an inch. We won't be a socialist country until we give up and start acting like one.[/quote]





The problem is that we've been on the road to socialism for a long time, so much so that "conservatives" are socialist these days. Many believe in a "heavy, progressive, income tax" as advocated by Marx. Sure, they might haggle with the Democrats on the actual tax rate, but few of them question the legitimacy of income tax in the first place.



The candidate that followed the philosophy of the Founding Fathers most closely was portrayed as a nut by the establishment, and many "conservatives" consider him one. They'd just gotten too used to socialism and big government that a return to the Constitutional Republic seems like anarchy to them.
"Why should I trade one tyrant 3,000 miles away for 3,000 tyrants one mile away. An elected legislature can trample a man's rights as easily as the king can." Benjamin Martin, The Patriot
#50
There are several approaches to surviving socialism.



Without a full-blown Communist revolution or a "cultural revolution" imposed by the government, socialism will continue to be gradually imposed.



One strategy is to just make a lot of money so you'd have enough no matter what the tax rate, and of course find the best tax shelters, and maybe put assets overseas.



Another is the "Poor Man's Atlas Shrugged" strategy I've discussed on earlier threads, where you help accelerate the decline towards socialism beyond the government's ability to pay for it.



Then there is the underground economy idea.



There really are no good options. Obviously making a lot of mony is a good idea though, but most people know that. <img src='http://www.hoodswoods.net/IVB/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />
"Why should I trade one tyrant 3,000 miles away for 3,000 tyrants one mile away. An elected legislature can trample a man's rights as easily as the king can." Benjamin Martin, The Patriot
#51
[quote name='muleskinner' post='293886' date='Oct 28 2008, 08:23 PM']Bullshit. Don't ever give them an inch. We won't be a socialist country until we give up and start acting like one.





Muleskinner,[/quote]



+ 1 brother Muleskinner..right on..



I talked to Grizzly Dave the wise the other day and he assured me we wouldnt become socialist then lose our guns..it would cause insurrection..even in canada..Wonder what would happen if John Adams or Jefferson were around right now..what kind of "reform" would they be in favor of..i wonder often about these things..First theyd probably want to slap most of us for allowing this to happen.. I am also tired of voting for the lesser of two evils..we need a true opposition party candidate..and not someone who wants to out lib the libs...its depressing..and im not sure the correct course of action..we are definitely at a crossroads in our Republic's(whats left of it) history.

I think just preparing and trying to hide will eventually not be enough..but im not sure where we go from there..later Luke
 " Survival is not mandatory" Norseman DT 08

#52
Ok folks, reality check time.



Where does the country stand currently? Left, Right or Center? IMO, we are well Right of Center at the moment and if the country chooses to move back to center, it's not a "Move towards socialism.", it's a return to normalcy.



My reasons for saying we are Right of Center...



The Republican Party having held control of both the Legislative and Executive branches (and as a result a more conservative Judicial branch), they felt that they (esp. W) had a mandate from God...hmm, look at the state of the country now:



The Constitution and Bill of Rights are in shreds due to Faith Based Initiatives, the Patriot Act and Military Commisions Act. Legislation that was supposed to make us safer, but according to 9 different intel agencies, we are no safer now than before 9-11. So we sacrificed freedom for a false sence of security.



We have redefined and sanctioned torture, also through the Military Commisions Act. We practice "rendition"...the arrest and movment of persons, suspected only, to overseas where they can be put to the question "leagelly". (Please give me a number on how much credible information has been gained from this, and please, put the bastards that voted for this through the same experience, then ask them what they call it.) Side Note - I find it odd that McCain, having been tortured by the VC would actually support the current administrations views.



We have become an aggressor state, joining North Korea, Russia, Nazi Germany, North Vietnam...the list goes on. Always before, we fought to defend ourselves or those who could not defend themselves. Why, because we believed that EVERYONE has the same rights outlined in our Constitution, not just American citizens. Somewhere we lost sight of that (see previous statment on torture).



We are fighting a war based off of lies and deception. WMD's? What WMD's? None here, as W looks under his couch. (I cannot tell you, how apalled I was, as a member of the armed forces, to hear our Commander in Chief belittle the sacrifice of my brothers, who died for "his legacy"). And all of this why? Because W is wanted to prove he can do what his daddy could/would not do to "win". He wanted to be a wartime president, he wanted a legacy (he says so himself in his biography). "It started on my watch, but it'll finish on yours." Translation - I'm going to make the biggest mess possible, it's up to others to clean it up.



What has it cost us? Almost 595 BILLION of your tax dollars, more importantly...4,189 killed. Almost 31,000 wounded. Those wounded are comming back with pieces missing. How much is that costing the tax payers to support the VA's demands for disability and rehabilitation? Deaths of Iraqis since the invasion...wait for it...Over 1.2 Million. Meanwhile, we have ignored the real problem, the one we let go...the real people responsible for 9-11. We killed Sadam for using the very weapons we supplied to him. I'm not going to mention the name of the individual sold him those weapons, but his initials are Donald Rumsfeld.



Where is Osama Bin Laden, and why is he still alive?



The Executive branch has abused it's power (and Congress has allowed this to continue), by deplpoying troops in an extended (over 5 years as of now) campaign, waging war without the authorization of Congress (who has the sole perview to the decleration of war upon another nation). This is not the only area where the executive branch has overstepped it's bounds...establishing trade agreements with South American countries (again, trade is the sole perview of Congress, not the President).



We allow major corperations to work together to gouge us (anti-trust anybody), stress testing our economy to the breaking point, doubling our cost of living, and threatening a world wide economic collapse. Now we are borrowing money from Europe, just to keep our heads above water. This after those same companys are using cheap labor from Mexico and over seas (I worked for Proctor and Gamble, and they held their Mexico and Chinese factories over our heads, threatening to shut the Iowa plant down) to under cut American jobs and pad their bottom lines. Corperations don't give a shit about us.



Those same corperations are given tax cuts that do not trickle down do us. The other tax cuts only apply to the top 2% of the people in the US.



We, the middle class. We the People. You and me...we are the ones that have suffered. We are the ones that pay...and we have paid too much for too little for too long.



And after 8 years of this...Your Rights being voided, Your money being wasted, You being taxed (the real tax cuts were only for the top 2% of the country), and you barely able to make ends meet, while corperations make record profits off of your blood, sweat and tears, Your children's lives being thrown away or worse (comming back home crippled for life) for a lie, justice for the men, women and children who died in 9-11 not being followed, you not being able to even earn a wage where you can live, and I hear people wanting more of the same? WTF? Is it really all good, just as long as you have your guns? Is that really only as far as you can see?



I own guns, and IT'S NOT ALL GOOD! Not for me! Not while I watch as the ideals I gave 16 years of service for are freely sacrificed by those I sought to protect! And are gleefully sanctioned by those in power!



How much do you have to loose before you do realize that the burden of proof to prove you are not a terrorist will be upon you, and how hard will that job be while you are sitting on a small arsenal and enough ammo to start a small war?



Reality check...



Where are we really? And where do we need to go from here?

IMO - Back to the center...as FDR put it, "A return to normalcy." We need the "New Deal" all over again.



I'm a Liberal, I'm pissed! And I want My Frickin' Rights Back!



'Nuff from me...

v/r

DwB



p.s. As to the original post...



We were in those very "hard times" you speak of...economy was stress tested, market crashed, we survived...prices are returning to normal. Stocks took a beating but gas prices are going down. Cost of living should become affordable again shortly...what did you do to survive and make it through?



DwB
#53
Quote:Where does the country stand currently? Left, Right or Center? IMO, we are well Right of Center at the moment and if the country chooses to move back to center, it's not a "Move towards socialism.", it's a return to normalcy.



Hussein Osama can't even see the center. He's to the left of the admitted socialist, Bernie Sanders. Neither can Dirty Harry Reid or The San Francisco Bitch Pelosi. If you want center and think Hussein is it, you're going to be surprised by what's about to be shoved up your arse. But it will be a change.



For all the babbling about this guy being a "new kind of politician", it's funny that he agrees with Jimmy Carter, Michael Dukakis, and John Kerry on everything.
#54
[quote name='Dances with Bikers' post='294295' date='Oct 29 2008, 08:29 PM']I'm a Liberal, I'm pissed! And I want My Frickin' Rights Back![/quote]





If you think that the US is to the Right of center, then I highly doubt you are a Liberal.



Maybe a socialist pretender who is using a hijacked name, but even then it is proper to refer to the American socialists as "liberals" and actual pro-freedom, individual rights, limited government types as "Liberals." A captial "L" refers to Classical Liberalism, the term "Classical" sometimes added.



We might be to the Right if the presidential election was between Ron Paul and Bob Barr rather than a race between a socialist Obama and a socialist RINO McCain.
"Why should I trade one tyrant 3,000 miles away for 3,000 tyrants one mile away. An elected legislature can trample a man's rights as easily as the king can." Benjamin Martin, The Patriot
#55
[quote name='dravine' post='294019' date='Oct 29 2008, 10:14 AM']I think the republican party did a great disservice in selecting McCain and Palin as their candidate. One has too much baggage, and the other has too little gray matter.[/quote]



The Democrats had a whole lot more to do with McCain's nomination in the open primaries than the Republicans. Proofs in the pudding when you consider McCain's lackluster campaign that was going no where until he brought Palin on board--- a Reaganite conservative. There are far more people who live their lives on conservative principles, but vote centrist to liberal at the ballot box. Money and taxes is a good example. I don't know anybody who likes higher taxes or wants their money redistributed to people who don't work at all... but those same people that I know who don't like high taxes are going to vote for the guy who is going to raise their taxes and is very open to redistributing their wealth in another form of welfare.



[quote name='Dances with Bikers' post='294295' date='Oct 29 2008, 10:29 PM']Ok folks, reality check time.



Where does the country stand currently? Left, Right or Center? IMO, we are well Right of Center at the moment and if the country chooses to move back to center, it's not a "Move towards socialism.", it's a return to normalcy.



My reasons for saying we are Right of Center...



The Republican Party having held control of both the Legislative and Executive branches (and as a result a more conservative Judicial branch), they felt that they (esp. W) had a mandate from God...hmm, look at the state of the country now:[/quote]



The recent republican incumbency has been far from being to the right, in fact very center if not a tad to the left. Bush is no conservative... I knew he wasn't conservative when he campaigned on compassionate conservatism- he had my vote because of his backbone and there was no way I would accept Gore. The Republican congress under Clinton was a step in the right direction- but they didn't do what needed to be done to defeat the left at their political games. Now the Republican party is a big tent party for everyone... apparently abortion is okay now- might as well join the Democrats. John McCain's policies are very much on par with Obama's--- the difference being I think he loves his country and is misled on how to fix the problems... Obama flat out hates this country and wants to change it to make it like the rest of the third world countries.



The conservative movement needs to be rebuilt and needs to return to the core principles as opposed to being redefined or tweaked. Reagan showed that conservative policies work- small govt, low taxes, etc.



Frankly its the idea of returning to "normalcy" that is the big part of the problem. What is normal anymore??? There are alot of bad things we call good and alot of good things we call bad these days- I want nothing to do with returning to normalcy.



Returning to the foundational principles of the constitution is what I would want- unfortunately on paper that looks very radical to a lot of people today- hence the turn towards socialism/marxism. If you notice- God and morality have no place in communism or socialism- they are incompatible. This is why we are giving up our freedoms as we are... as a nation we no longer stand on a moral high ground nor do we submit to a higher power- all men are created equal. Its funny we have more churches now than in anytime in history and we now live in one of the most corrupt and evil generations this country has ever seen.
#56
I've thought long and hard on this election. It is troubling to me on many levels.



I will not vote for Barry. No way, no how, never, not even for dog catcher. He seems to have aligned himself with everything I feal apposed to politically. His association with the black agenda is disturbing to me and racist. His far left record is telling. He will devide this country even more, in my opinion.



McCain is not much better. Socialist lite if you will. Many things about his ideas I disagree with. Too many in fact.



I worry about the Supreme Court but cannot vote for McCain. I am setting this one out from a personal perspective. I can not vote for either of these men. It grates upon my personal beliefs.



So much for politics!



I believe Barry will win. With that assumption how do I prepare? Barry has said he will be looking at the work I do to cut it. I have been preparing with food stuffs over the past few years. So I'm good there for awhile.



Wealth is a excellent hedge I would think. A weathy man without a job is best I suspect. A community organizer with hidden money would be a great hedge.



For the rest of us the gray area looks good to me (since I am not wealthy nor a community organizer). Barter, free of oversight, would be good I think.
#57
I guess we will know in five days.
#58
Quote:"We all declare for liberty; but in using the same word we do not all mean the same thing. With some the word liberty may mean for each man to do as he pleases with himself, and the product of his labor; while with others, the same word may mean for some men to do as they please with other men, and the product of other men's labor. Here are two, not only different, but incompatible things, called by the same name - liberty. And it follows that each of the things is, by the respective parties, called by two different and incompatible names - liberty and tyranny."


--The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume VII, "Address at Sanitary Fair, Baltimore, Maryland" (April 18, 1864), p. 301-302.



Quote:"Passion has helped us; but can do so no more. It will in future be our enemy. Reason, cold, calculating, unimpassioned reason, must furnish all the materials for our future support and defense."

-- February 22, 1842 - Temperance Address of Springfield, Illinois
"Everyone's a pacifist between wars. It's like being a vegetarian between meals."



"If you want to test wisdom, offer it up to fools and watch how they tear it up."



"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." --Abraham Lincoln
#59
[quote name='johnnycat' post='294919' date='Oct 31 2008, 05:03 PM']
Quote:"Passion has helped us; but can do so no more. It will in future be our enemy. Reason, cold, calculating, unimpassioned reason, must furnish all the materials for our future support and defense."

-- February 22, 1842 - Temperance Address of Springfield, Illinois

[/quote]





okay, i have to ask something here - ol abe was as ugly as they come - and amongst his chief virtues was definitely not found Passion - what else could he appeal to besides Reason?



there are many other virtues. - he doesn't seem to have been big on fairness or faith, amongst others.



i see this statement as a typical politician move - and i apologize to all the folks out there that aren't really big fans of ol' Mr. Booth.



abe was a dick IMHO.





there should be a JWB Memorial.



vec
#60
Democracy, n.:

A government of the masses. Authority derived through mass meeting or any other form of direct expression. Results in mobocracy.

Attitude toward property is communistic... negating property rights. Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate, whether it is based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences. Result is demagogism, license, agitation, discontent, anarchy.

-- U. S. Army Training Manual No. 2000-25 (1928-1932),

since withdrawn.



The problem?

"Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed." --Sara Brady, Chair, Handgun Control, Inc.



"We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans...." --Bill Clinton, _USA TODAY_, 11 March 1993



"A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend upon the support of Paul." --G.B. Shaw





The solution?

"A venturesome minority will always be eager to set off on their own, and no obstacles should be placed in their path; let them take risks, for

godsake, let them get lost, sunburnt, stranded, drowned, eaten by bears, buried alive under avalanches - that is the right and privilege of any

free American." --Edward Abbey



Not the solution!

"Yes, people have a clear choice between the present G-string government of tawdry politics, casino gambling and stripper-turned bureaucrat and my government of church-going industrialists and military who will help me lower taxes in my dress."

-- Peppy Martin, former chiffon-garbed GOP gubernatorial nominee, Kentucky
Men are, that they might have joy.


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