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Why Does Blackwater Guard Our Embassies?
#1
Hi Folks



Got nothing against Blackwater but I dont understand why a private sector company would be watching government sites. Why aren't the guards from the standard military groups?



Just curious

Kid
Live with honor, ride with truth.  Be friendly to others.  But always carry a gun on your side and a knife in your boot because there are those that do not feel the same as this.


#2
[quote name='Kid Couteau' post='160122' date='Sep 19 2007, 05:16 AM']Hi Folks



Got nothing against Blackwater but I dont understand why a private sector company would be watching government sites. Why aren't the guards from the standard military groups?



Just curious

Kid[/quote]





Hi Kid,



You will also see private security guarding many of our Stateside installations.



There are many reasons for using private security, but the top of the list is that it lets soldiers do their jobs and train for war as opposed to spending time on guard duty, and two it is much more cost effective to use private security than it is to use soldiers to guard a facility.





Cheers,

Mick
==================================

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#3
Exactly what Mick said.



Soldiers are warriors....not guards....removing them from such mundane tasks as guarding fatcats frees them up to perform the job they were trained for, better for the soldier, better for the military...better all around.



And no damn flame war over the soldier/warrior comment...you know what was meant by it.



Dave
Some mornings it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps!


#4
Capabilities,they put together custom packages for each situation.Bremmer for example they put together an amazing package of Multiple helicopters and other elements and changed the way everybody else did things.Great militaries have always used private resource.
#5
I like to see private sector firms getting into things like that. This nation has proven time and time again that innovation and adaptation happens much faster in the open market than it does from within a large bureaucracy.
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#6
Blackwater is just the tip of the iceberg...we have contractors that run security on FOB's, contractors that run the DFAC's, contractors for construction, providing transportation, digging trenches for our communications fiber, etc. I know Blackwater is labeled as a "mercenary" organization, but it's no different than all the other "security" agencies stateside that provide security at military bases, nuclear plants, the big hydro plants, etc. Groups such as Blackwater have a very large percentage of former police and military personnel, most of who have already been in this environment, so I'm not concerned about their credentials. So, for the most part, it's not a big deal as far as I'm concerned, and I'm not going to get my burka in a wad. Those I have encountered have been very professional and top notch individuals. Remember, their bottom line is reputation in protection and $$$. They do not want to jeopardize either; furthermore, the advantage of "imported" security, is that (aside from the fact that us "green-suiters" are not really trained as body-guards nor do we have the number to support the various security details) they are quite impartial to politics when it comes who they're protecting.



My only issue is that any incident that they are involved in will be blown out of proportion and used as propaganda whether it's a legitimate escalation of force or not. I do think accountability needs enforced...no different than any Soldier under our own UCMJ.



I sometimes wish we could contract out our legislators...it would be easier to get good ones and a heck of a lot easier to terminate contracts for the idiotic ones.



ROCK6
#7
Contractors are typically subject matter experts who can be easily replaced as the need arises. This latest Blackwater incident is just an example. If the Blackwater name becomes taboo in Iraq, another company will step in and the Blackwater guys can easily be reassigned (read hired by the new company). They did their job, but they may end up being replaced for political convenience. How could they replace a Marine Unit; a different Marine unit? It's still Marines.



I'm a subject matter expert in a different subject (Navy contractor). If I F'k up I can be fired/replaced with a phone call, easy. If my job was active duty the guys I support would just have to deal with it until my tour was up and then hope they get somebody better. More likely I'll be terminated due to funding issues -- BTDT, was rehired by another group with a raise.



Contractors are here to stay. The folks in DC realize it's cost effective to buy expertise, whether intellectual, technical or para-military.
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#8
This is a good example of how the news outlets handle their news.



Blackwater and other contractors have a very different relationship with Iraq.If you look at how they are there you will find an arrangement that has little to do with the Iraq government.This will all come to pass.As for the enemy they will continue and try to use the media for their own.You can already see things changing with the story.We are talking about some very talented people in every level.Yes there will be resentment.
#9
In my view, there are three reasons. First, the current size of our military forces is too small to handle the load we impose on them now, and any additional burden will send them over the edge.



Second, nobody much cares how many contractors get killed, so using them is a way to hide the true body count from our misadventures. It is likely that as many contractors have been killed in Iraq as military, but the media don't report the figures.



Third, contractors, who are by definition mercenaries, can more easily commit actions that are prohibited to the military. For example, the US government used to pay the Hmong in Vietnam to bring in the heads of Viet Cong.



BTW, indigenous Chinese mercenaries (I've forgetten the name for them) were sometimes used to guard US Army intelligence personnel in Vietnam (in Hue), so using mercenaries as guards has a long history.



Mariner
#10
[quote name='Mariner' post='160172' date='Sep 19 2007, 10:51 AM']Second, nobody much cares how many contractors get killed, so using them is a way to hide the true body count from our misadventures. It is likely that as many contractors have been killed in Iraq as military, but the media don't report the figures.



Third, contractors, who are by definition mercenaries, can more easily commit actions that are prohibited to the military. For example, the US government used to pay the Hmong in Vietnam to bring in the heads of Viet Cong.

ry.



Mariner[/quote]



Sorry, but I must respectively call BS on this. I just got back from spending 3 years in Iraq as a security contractor. 2 years in Baghdad, 1 year in Tallil. We supported the Corps of Engineers. The true body count is over 1000, but not even close to what you are wrongly suggesting. That includes the other "mercs" as you call them: engineers, IT, cooks, drivers, etc.



We fell under a very strict rules of force that was equal to what the military was under. 99% of all security jobs is security. Nobody is going out and doing offensive operations.



I agree that nobody back home cares, and that is to be expected. We didn't mind. Some say our pay was too much, but all contactors were well paid, whether you were driving the streets or sitting on the base pumping gas for KBR. I went over not so much for the pay, but to do something for my country. This was back in early 2004. We were at war and a warrior moves towards the sound of battle, doing whatever he can. I am also a former Army Ranger.



Our State department contracts out the diplomat's security when in high risk countries. The program is called WPPS. Blackwater, DynCorp, and Triple Canopy are the current contractors. They all go thru a State department verified course and fall under very strict guidelines in regards to their actions, weapons, and even personal conduct.



Contractors can stay in country longer, and don't have to rotate out like the soldiers. Thus, you have more experience stayng in country, often on the same team. Experience is what saves your butt over there.



Being in an ambush in Baghdad is not a good time. People get hit and things blown up. Actually, Blackwater had a bad week, not just a bad day, but that didn't make the news.



While I respect everyone's right to say what they want, pure speculation without validation is IMHO is just speculation. I know the facts, I know the story, and you sir our wrong.
#11
[quote name='Iraq Ninja' post='160203' date='Sep 19 2007, 09:44 AM']While I respect everyone's right to say what they want, pure speculation without validation is IMHO is just speculation. I know the facts, I know the story, and you sir our wrong.[/quote]



I've been interested by the Blackwater involvement in Iraq, in Katrina and other places.



Since you know the facts, Iraq Ninja, let me ask you a few questions...



How many Blackwater members are from countries other than the U.S?



How many Blackwater members are willing to violate the U.S. Constitution, should they be called on by the government to violate rights (rob people of their firearms, enforce completely illegal curfews, etc.)?



How many Blackwater members are assassins who are perfectly willing to silence "dissenters"?



This is what I'm hearing about Blackwater: great soldiers, but many (not all) are committed only to the money. I.e., worse than lawyers (snicker) about doing anything for a buck. I'm also hearing that many are the most fearsome assassins form other countries.



What can you tell us to ease our concerns over such things? Yes, you, I trust, are a good guy and probably would be fearsome in defense of the U.S. Constitution. What are the percentages, though, and how do we have assurance that a Hillary government won't take advantage of that?
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#12
[quote name='kldimond' post='160214' date='Sep 19 2007, 01:10 PM'][quote name='Iraq Ninja' post='160203' date='Sep 19 2007, 09:44 AM']While I respect everyone's right to say what they want, pure speculation without validation is IMHO is just speculation. I know the facts, I know the story, and you sir our wrong.[/quote]



I've been interested by the Blackwater involvement in Iraq, in Katrina and other places.



Since you know the facts, Iraq Ninja, let me ask you a few questions...



How many Blackwater members are from countries other than the U.S?



How many Blackwater members are willing to violate the U.S. Constitution, should they be called on by the government to violate rights (rob people of their firearms, enforce completely illegal curfews, etc.)?



How many Blackwater members are assassins who are perfectly willing to silence "dissenters"?



This is what I'm hearing about Blackwater: great soldiers, but many (not all) are committed only to the money. I.e., worse than lawyers (snicker) about doing anything for a buck. I'm also hearing that many are the most fearsome assassins form other countries.



What can you tell us to ease our concerns over such things? Yes, you, I trust, are a good guy and probably would be fearsome in defense of the U.S. Constitution. What are the percentages, though, and how do we have assurance that a Hillary government won't take advantage of that?

[/quote]



Got any references to these allegations I could read?
Welcome to the internet, you're probably taking it too seriously.

What you see is the result of the perspective you choose.

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Grand Rapids Michigan
#13
There is a book on Mr. Prinz's rise to power curiously called Blackwater. It is a very interesting read.



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#14
[quote name='kldimond' post='160214' date='Sep 19 2007, 10:10 AM']How many Blackwater members are willing to violate the U.S. Constitution, should they be called on by the government to violate rights (rob people of their firearms, enforce completely illegal curfews, etc.)?



How many Blackwater members are assassins who are perfectly willing to silence "dissenters"?[/quote]



I assume you mean within the United States?
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#15
I really don't even want to begin to see where this will go. I believe most "contractors" are good, honest fellas maybe trying to earn a little extra cash in a bad place. Remember Tommy Hamill? Most Blackwater, if not all, are former military or LE. Trained to go do what needs to be done. Hard to voice opinions on a subject unless you were there. Iraq Ninja, thanks for prior service and good to see you came out on the right side of a bad place.


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