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Why Does Blackwater Guard Our Embassies?
#46
[quote name='dravine' post='160988' date='Sep 21 2007, 05:39 AM']Kid,



I think it would be a very very bad day for foreign mercs if they were to act against US citizens on US soil, regardless of who's payroll they're on. There were 800,000 white tail tags pulled in Michigan last year alone. That's a lot of high powered rifle owning folks. I know a good many who'd be throwing on the mossy oak, and heading to where the fun is.



As to the "real military" having holdups about taking action against US citizens, I'm actually more concerned about them than I am contractors. Private Doolittle is probably more likely to shut the fuck up and follow orders for fear of courts martial proceedings, than Mr. Mercinary is about quitting his job in protest. Ya know what I mean?



I take comfort in the fact that there are 90 firearms for every 100 Americans. The next closest country to us, is ironically India, where the ratio is 4 out of every 100 people.



Weather we have the will to use it or not is another issue of debate.[/quote]



Mmmm... Interesting point (contractors more on target with Constitution than regulars are). I'll let that one sink in a while...



I dunno, though, about hunters going after bad guy soldiers. Didn't see it with Katrina, but then again, maybe with reflection on Katrina, it would be more likely. It happens a few times, I think it could indeed create that kind of response.



I agree that in Katrina, the orders were illegal and we should be most bothered by the people who issued them. But I do have to say that anyone following illegal orders loses credibility as a good guy. The ol' Nuremberg Defense doesn't cut it--didn't then and it doesn't now.
Freedom--to be a fool or only thought one, to do well or to do poorly, with only one restraint known as accountability--is the best that philanthopy--and sustainable civilization--have to offer. It's also what the U.S. Founders tried to create and make sustainable against the vicissitudes of collective folly.



Sworn officers, know your oath. Understand its priorities and abide by them. This is a first step in restoring proper order in our social systems...
#47
[quote name='dravine' post='160988' date='Sep 21 2007, 08:39 AM']...



I think it would be a very very bad day for foreign mercs if they were to act against US citizens on US soil, regardless of who's payroll they're on. There were 800,000 white tail tags pulled in Michigan last year alone. That's a lot of high powered rifle owning folks. I know a good many who'd be throwing on the mossy oak, and heading to where the fun is.

...



I take comfort in the fact that there are 90 firearms for every 100 Americans. The next closest country to us, is ironically India, where the ratio is 4 out of every 100 people.



Weather we have the will to use it or not is another issue of debate.[/quote]



Well, dravine, my take is that this is the stuff of fantasies. Perhaps small groups of fanatics might try something, but they would soon be crushed.



If Americans are as upset about the porous US borders as they are and nothing is done about it, I don't expect foreign mercs blowing away a few of our citizens would lead to much. Just as Americans are not shooting illegal aliens as they cross the border, but are acting within our laws, so too Americans will not rise up as insurrectionists. At Kent State, military might killed some students and nobody arose to smite the perpetrators. An inquiry was held.



Americans don't have the training, the discipline, and the motivation to be insurrectionists. The tree of liberty will remain parched.



Our country is nowhere near as polarized now as we were during the Vietnam war. Tensions then led to riots and burning down parts of our major cities, so much so that tanks were rolling down Detroit's highways (I was talking with a friend on the phone as they went past her apartment building). Today, nobody like Jane and Joan are offering to fuck for peace.



Back in the day you used to hear a lot about surivalist type groups forming, but in my view the government snuffed them out via examples such as Ruby Ridge and Waco. All that militia buzz petered away to silence. The flight of the bumblebee will not be heard because there aren't any damned bumblebees left.



Your reliance on a well-armed population as a source of comfort makes me wonder how many Iraqis have an AK-47, which can be used on full automatic, as a tool to defend liberty in their country. What is the source of your data, and how do Switzerland and Israel compare to the US?



Mariner
#48
[quote name='Woodsloafer' post='160883' date='Sep 20 2007, 09:03 PM'][quote name='muleskinner' post='160834' date='Sep 20 2007, 06:30 PM']Who would you rather have guarding the Embassy? A bunch of experenced, hard core trained professionals? Or a bunch of ninteen year old kids, with two months of basic training.[/quote]



Just for the hell of it, Muleskinner, I suggest you get your facts straight before sounding off thru your anal oriface.



No soldier/Marine is sent to Bagdad with just "basic" training. (But I'm sure facts have no place in your opinions.)

[/quote]



You just jumped way over the line with that one. Besides being wrong, as i know several marines who got to our unit and were shipped straight to iraq, with very little time in between, you also misspelled orifice. On top of that, it was incredibly rude. To add to the growing list, baghdad is not the worst place to be, far from it actually. Ramadi is much worse and the small village of Hit would fuck up your world.
In my world, everyone's a pony and they all eat rainbows and poop butterflies.



"fire is like a hot girlfriend - don't feed it too much and you will get along, and you will look forward to sleeping with it...." --- vector001



"You know that feeling when your perineum scrunches up into a ball and tries to enter your stomach?" ---Annie







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#49
THEIR BACK.......Blackwater resumed their convoys.
#50
There are some seriously flawed statements in this thread.

Blackwater (the guys on the contract you folks are seeing in the news now) are all U.S. citizens with extensive military backgrounds/Police Swat/or former Federal agents with protective security experience. They are recruited/trained to Department of State/Diplomatic Security Service standards/and investigated for DOS Secret security clearances. We are thorougly tested/evaluated in train up where we are evaluated on leadership/intelligence/your ability to function under extreme stress/precision shooting and driving/physical fitness/and psychological testing prior to being deployed.



This is mandated by the Department Of State, no corners are cut and it is a pass or fail process. These contract requirements are met by all three companies on this contract and the process is monitored by DSS Agents who observe training.

Blackwater has used foreign nationals for mostly support personnel in the past, HOWEVER they DO NOT provide Protective Security for our Diplomats and DOS employees.



I am on the same contract (WPPS) and have been here in Iraq for the last 3 years(with one of the other 2 companies). I have been a private security contractor since July of 2001 and was in the Middle east on 9/11. I decided to stay and with the exception of a 3 month break in 2004 have been deployed since working on various security contracts for US DOS/DOD.



WE ARE NOT MERCENARIES, mercenaries spend their time overthrowing countries, we spend ours keeping the folks alive who are trying to get Iraq on her feet.



I love hearing all the theories about how we are evil bastards who are plotting to overtake the planet. We are PATRIOTS folks, the vast majority of us do this job because we love it (the money is not worth the shit we put up with,believe me) and are almost universally hated (especially by the bureaucrats we give our lives to protect).



So to answer the question WHY ARE WE HERE? Simple, the American people have made it abundantly clear that they want our Military out of Iraq. With the exception of certain US military SMU's the military is neither trained/staffed/equipped/or experienced enough to handle this job.



The Military's job is to locate/close with/and destroy the enemy. They are spread thin as it is now. There is no way they could handle the security of our Diplomats and the THOUSANDS of Government personnel needing security to move anywhere in this place.



I have lost several friends here and tend to get a little pissed when the friggin media pisses all over them.



4 pieces of info for you



1.)The media is full of shit, if you cant see that you are a sheep.

2.)The Iraqi Interior Ministry (the assholes making the claims) are murderers and extortionists.

3.)Arabs are using our own media to win the Global War on Terror with our approval and with the support of millions of Americans who believe them over their own countrymen.

4.)Im thinking about becoming a mercenary so i can be the first hoodlum to kill someone with the ATAX(HAR!!!)
"Survival is a losing mindset. Train to win, not just survive."-LMS Defense
#51
how do you know that honor isnt already taken?
In my world, everyone's a pony and they all eat rainbows and poop butterflies.



"fire is like a hot girlfriend - don't feed it too much and you will get along, and you will look forward to sleeping with it...." --- vector001



"You know that feeling when your perineum scrunches up into a ball and tries to enter your stomach?" ---Annie







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#52
[quote name='praharin' post='161513' date='Sep 22 2007, 08:29 PM']how do you know that honor isnt already taken?[/quote]



What does that mean and to whom is it addressed? As is, I'm baffled.



Mariner
#53
the very last line in the post above mine. <img src='http://www.hoodswoods.net/IVB/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbsup:' />







im a poet and i dont know it





























ive got a rhyme every time <img src='http://www.hoodswoods.net/IVB/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Wink' />
In my world, everyone's a pony and they all eat rainbows and poop butterflies.



"fire is like a hot girlfriend - don't feed it too much and you will get along, and you will look forward to sleeping with it...." --- vector001



"You know that feeling when your perineum scrunches up into a ball and tries to enter your stomach?" ---Annie







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#54
Its great to hear "contractors" that work in iraq are there to defend america and the pay has nothing to do with it at all. You could put all those skills to use in the natl. guard or reserves and lead troops that are younger or less skilled.
Rebles have been rebels since i dont know when.
#55
[quote name='BuckyT' post='161463' date='Sep 22 2007, 02:03 PM']I love hearing all the theories about how we are evil bastards who are plotting to overtake the planet. We are PATRIOTS folks, the vast majority of us do this job because we love it (the money is not worth the shit we put up with,believe me) and are almost universally hated (especially by the bureaucrats we give our lives to protect).[/quote]



Hmm. I haven't seen anyone here spouting such theories. I think I am the primary "antagonist" here, and I don't even hold such theories.



However, I am amused at the fact that not one soul has suggested that contractors would hesitate to follow illegal orders in support of the "evil bastards that (I DO believe) are plotting to overtake (sic) the planet." This disturbs me.



As a patriot, BuckyT, would you refuse an illegal order from the President or DOD/DOS honchos? How many of your compadres would? Are you all savvy to the Constitution and its clear meanings (or is what you understand of it the kind of bugspittle that the "living document" judges make of it)? How many would turn on such an official, and put him under arrest (Ok, I acknowledge that this is too much to hope for at all)?



Hey, talk's cheap. All you have to do is even acknowledge the concept and tell me a sweet little lie. Or fib. Or fudge. Or perhaps it's the truth. Tell me what I wanna hear. Or don't; I guess it's no skin off anyone's nose if you don't. The concern is raised and my point is made.



Let me try to clear something up: at least for me, this isn't about hate or, in fact, lack of high regard. It is about governments and how the players in government wiggle around illegalities--and the people who are motivated, at least from what we can see on the surface of it and by the actions of some, to go along.



I have tried to convey this in several different ways so far, and the next guy/gal (and subsequent folks) that wants to assume I'm theorizing about Blackwater, et al, as "evil bastards that want to overtake the planet," I'm going to allow to live with his folly, and not bother to try to clear it up. Although, I might use it in evidence...
Freedom--to be a fool or only thought one, to do well or to do poorly, with only one restraint known as accountability--is the best that philanthopy--and sustainable civilization--have to offer. It's also what the U.S. Founders tried to create and make sustainable against the vicissitudes of collective folly.



Sworn officers, know your oath. Understand its priorities and abide by them. This is a first step in restoring proper order in our social systems...
#56
We dont take "Orders", we are here to do a very specific job, nothing more nothing less. We dont have arrest powers so i dont think we would be arresting anyone to answer that question.



My statement about the conspiracy theorists was not limited to this site, it was a generalized statement in reference to all the hogwash posted on the internet and being spouted by talking heads who have no direct experience with the subject matter they are reporting.



I dont presume to speak for any man but if i was "Ordered" to do something immoral or illegal i would laugh in their face before kicking them in the ass, its part of being a decent human.



I have stated my position based on experience in this line of work, you have stated yours based on your opinion. I dont try to change peoples opinions it rarelly gets anywhere, i state my experience and let people do their own thing.



You are free to believe whatever it is you want to believe, if you think the Federal Government and private contractors are involved in a vast conspiracy to deprive you of tinfoil, hey brother you get down with your bad assed self.



And praharin,

i guess i will settle for being the first guy in my state <img src='http://www.hoodswoods.net/IVB/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink3.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wink3:' />
"Survival is a losing mindset. Train to win, not just survive."-LMS Defense
#57
[quote name='Sandspike' post='161535' date='Sep 22 2007, 10:24 PM']Its great to hear "contractors" that work in iraq are there to defend america and the pay has nothing to do with it at all. You could put all those skills to use in the natl. guard or reserves and lead troops that are younger or less skilled.[/quote]



theres a lot of bull shit to deal with in the military that you wont have to as a contractor. like 2 hours of sleep followed by police call of the desert. while the conditions they live in do justify how much they are paid, and certainly there would be fewer of them if the pay was significantly less. i know there are some that do it simply to serve and the pay is just a nice compensation for their hard work.



brother diamond, you need to stop being so paranoid. you are beginning to sound like a wack job conspiracy theorist. you arent going to believe anything brother bucky tells you any way, so why ask him questions?



Quote:...tell me a sweet little lie. Or fib. Or fudge. Or perhaps it's the truth.



in this statement it seems that whatever he says, you will believe it is a lie. unless he states what you already believe you are just going to dismiss it as a cover up. settle back and take into consideration that while the contractors may be called mercenaries in that they are 'soldiers for hire' they are not out to the highest bidder, but their own government, just trying to help out where they can.
In my world, everyone's a pony and they all eat rainbows and poop butterflies.



"fire is like a hot girlfriend - don't feed it too much and you will get along, and you will look forward to sleeping with it...." --- vector001



"You know that feeling when your perineum scrunches up into a ball and tries to enter your stomach?" ---Annie







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#58
[quote name='praharin' post='161586' date='Sep 23 2007, 06:45 AM']....



brother diamond, you need to stop being so paranoid. you are beginning to sound like a wack job conspiracy theorist. you arent going to believe anything brother bucky tells you any way, so why ask him questions?



Quote:...tell me a sweet little lie. Or fib. Or fudge. Or perhaps it's the truth.

....

[/quote]



x 2.



v
#59
[quote name='vector001' post='161624' date='Sep 23 2007, 11:29 AM'][quote name='praharin' post='161586' date='Sep 23 2007, 06:45 AM']....



brother diamond, you need to stop being so paranoid. you are beginning to sound like a wack job conspiracy theorist. you arent going to believe anything brother bucky tells you any way, so why ask him questions?



Quote:...tell me a sweet little lie. Or fib. Or fudge. Or perhaps it's the truth.

....

[/quote]



x 2.



v

[/quote]

x 3



R
"Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves."

Money and Wealth in the New Millennium, by Norm Franz.
#60
<trend setter!
In my world, everyone's a pony and they all eat rainbows and poop butterflies.



"fire is like a hot girlfriend - don't feed it too much and you will get along, and you will look forward to sleeping with it...." --- vector001



"You know that feeling when your perineum scrunches up into a ball and tries to enter your stomach?" ---Annie







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