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Rations for Diabetics?
#16
Mr Hay,YES SIR.
a armed man is his own master
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#17
(10-26-2017, 02:23 PM)Adapt-Overcome-Conquer Wrote:
(10-26-2017, 01:21 AM)Someday_RN Wrote: There have been plenty of people that have cured their type 2 diabetes with fasting. If you had type one diabetes and are not taking insulin you would be dead, or in a coma. It would be type 2 diabetes that you have. There have been plenty of people that have cured type 2 diabetes with fasting. Check out Dr. Jason Fung, a nephrologist from Toronto, who has cured 100's of people of type 2 diabetes. Dr. Goldhamer, in the States, has been curing people of type 2 diabetes and arthritis pain with fasting, and has been using fasting as medical treatment for 30 years. The drugs the MD gives you will destroy your liver and kidneys by making your diabetes worse. Fasting has been proven for 2000 years to be very healthy and beneficial.

wow this is all a great wealth of information, very helpful...I am woe-fully well aware of the situations with the drug dealers...cough I mean "docs" cough..... Big Grin

so when you say someone can fix or cure their type 2 diabetes by fasting.....you mean literally eating nothing for a few days until blood sugar goes back to normal and then just repeat that whenever it gets too high...or maybe fast on a regular "maintenance" type of basis...??

there has been talk of the benefits of fasting on this forum before...and as you stated folks have been doing it for thousands of years to cleanse themselves and cure their ills....

my mom has fatty liver, and I have tried to get her to fast before but she refuses because of her "hypoglycemia"....she says she gets sick if she doesn't eat.... but I don't know why she even has fatty liver--she does drink alcohol regularly but not in major excess...she has had a VERY healthy diet for many years and exercises fairly heavily. weird.....


AOC

It depends how bad the diabetes is, and how many drugs one is on. The more sickness there is the more fasting is needed. Each person is different so some understanding of oneself needs to be known. Hippocrates stated: "let food be your medicine and medicine your food, but to eat when one is sick is to feed disease"

The fact that someone has fatty liver and hyglycaemia means that they are eating the wrong foods. The wrong foods are almost any with an ingredient list. Mnay people have been tricked into thinking that they are eating healthy by eating foods that are marketed as healthy. If they have to market the food as healthy it means they are lying and it is detrimental you health.
"If you save one life you are a hero. If you save 100 lives you are a nurse." Unknown










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#18
(10-26-2017, 11:07 PM)Bill Hay Wrote: [Image: 22780624_1104001823067863_72864748726970...e=5A7DBD17]

The fact that anyone would get angry when not eating means they are addicted. It is the same process whether it is cigarettes, carbs or cocaine. There is a lot of science that goes into creating pleasure from food, and anything that creates pleasure also has a flip side of sorrow and anger, which mean the mind is being controlled through addiction and craving. Pleasure on one side and craving, anger and sorrow on the other side are just opposite sides of the same coin of addiction, and being ruled by the self will.

The woman in the picture is not able to think for herself and is being led around by addiction.
"If you save one life you are a hero. If you save 100 lives you are a nurse." Unknown










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#19
I am the last one to question a Someday_A Nurse, I think you may have missed one important fact.The human body does not need ,alcohol,cocaine,nicotine,or any other addicting substance.The human body has to have carbs to function.Addiction is caused by a person DECIDING ( for the most part) to ingest the addicting substance.Carbs are not a addicting substance, the abuse of them is.I was addicted to almost all of them (except cocaine) and have quit all ,my body however need carbs to survive.
.
a armed man is his own master
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#20
(10-30-2017, 02:19 PM)canon6 Wrote: I  am the last one to question a Someday_A  Nurse, I think you may have missed one important fact.The human body does not need ,alcohol,cocaine,nicotine,or any other addicting substance.The human body has to have carbs to function.Addiction is caused by a person DECIDING ( for the most part) to ingest the addicting substance.Carbs are not a addicting substance, the abuse of them is.I was addicted to almost all of them (except cocaine) and have quit all ,my body however  need carbs to survive.
.

That is a really great point about the energy needed to feed the body and mind--calorie deficits will mess with your well being. If I don't eat simple carbs for a few days I don't feel any effects--because I replace with protein, fats and more complex carbs...but man when I was on this crazy diet like 700 cal a day ...so I would look my best in my graduation photos--I lost 45 pounds in a few months-- I was HANGREEEEEEEEEY!! (hungry+angry) it was hard because majority of our meals/food is based on a simple starch or carb... ie: spaghetti and meatballs--minus the spaghetti, sandwich-minus the bread,  after a few weeks of major calorie deficient- I had less patience, less tact and less humor-- dare I say--I was bitchy.

I was eating heavy protein and fats in the morning and only lean meat and veggies in afternoon and night....god damn...my friends were like --you are a little cranky these days.... Big Grin Cool  most of that weight came back after a few months of eating toast, noodles, muffins and cookies again....

I now realize that extra weight went on slowly and only way to take it off is slowly...without getting hangry that is...no wonder everyone on the alone show is crying and frustrated after a few weeks...1 fish a day ain't enough...hell 10 fish a day ain't enough long term.


AOC
"When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."--Thomas Jefferson

"Buy land- they are not making it anymore"- Mark Twain

"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile €”hoping it will eat him last." -Winston Churchill

"Wilderness is in our hearts first and always. All of us can't have a cabin in the mountains. It's the wilderness within we must strive for first."- R. Sullivan
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#21
(10-30-2017, 02:19 PM)canon6 Wrote: I  am the last one to question a Someday_A  Nurse, I think you may have missed one important fact.The human body does not need ,alcohol,cocaine,nicotine,or any other addicting substance.The human body has to have carbs to function.Addiction is caused by a person DECIDING ( for the most part) to ingest the addicting substance.Carbs are not a addicting substance, the abuse of them is.I was addicted to almost all of them (except cocaine) and have quit all ,my body however  need carbs to survive.
.

Thank you cannon6  for bringing up another aspect in the conversation. Addiction is not as simple as using a substance, whether it be food or drugs. One can use food and drugs, even highly addictive drugs such as cocaine and not be addicted. I have had personal experience using drugs, and have known many others that have used recreational drugs like cocaine and opiates and have not become addicted. When the body and mind undergoes a physiological and/or psychological change that withdrawal symptoms occur, that is addiction. I have seen people so badly addicted to drugs that if they were to stop them they would die, within a day or two, which without intensive medical management, they would not have survived.

Addiction to food is not as dramatic as addictions to drugs, but the process is the same, in regards to the physiological aspects that happen in the body and mind.

You can survive quite well without carbs. Your body has no physiological need for carbohydrates. There are many people that can use drugs and not become addicted to them. There is a difference between ingesting a substance and addiction to a substance. If you are overweight, or have type 2 diabetes chances are that you have a food addiction.

You would not live very long without ingesting fat and protein, and you don't need to take in much protein to survive, but a person could live quite well without carbs. Carbohydrate addiction manifests as mood changes and personality changes when a person, who is addicted, does not get their carb fix. Sometimes it is seen as reactive hypoglycaemia.

In addition, the addiction to food kills many people, where a certain amount and type of food contributes to health and well being, an addiction to food, causes obesity and many other illnesses, like type 2 diabetes, cardio-vascular disease, gout, renal calculi, cholecystitis, blindness and limb amputation to name a few. So although food is essential to life, addiction to food causes many problems that are well known, but people will continue to indulge and become sicker because they are addicted. Many foods are eaten for pleasure, but end up preventing people from abiding in happiness. This is the same with drugs like cocaine and heroin; intense pleasure is derived from their use, but in the end abuse of them causes only sorrow. Just like an addiction to food. Whereas cocaine and heroin have been used for good, like relieving pain, and stopping severe epistaxis, so even drugs that are bad have uses that can help those is need.

Just because a substance is different, and can have different uses to achieve a positive outcome, they can be abused. This is because it is the process, not the substance itself. The process remains the same regardless the substance. A process can lead to health or addiction. If one has true control of themselves they will understand that there is nothing that is inherently bad or good, but how it is used. Look at guns, they are not evil or good, they are simply what they are. They have been used to obtain food which promotes life and health, or they can be used to promote death and sorrow. It is in the process, not the substance. There have been people addicted to eating cat hair, is that an addictive substance?

As Sri Ramakrishna has stated “One man may read the Bhagavata by the light of a lamp, and another may commit forgery by that very light; but the lamp is unaffected. The sun sheds light on the wicked as well as the virtuous.”

Your addiction came not from choosing to "ingest an addicting substance", that was the symptom of indulging the senses, which is what causes all addictions. If you chose to use addictive substances in an altruistic manner, not in a selfish manner, you would not have become addicted. Addiction is the mind being controlled by the ego. Like almost everyone, the person that is asleep is controlled by the ego, they are not really in control of themselves. This is why people become addicted. It is due to selfishness and trying to indulge in things that are impermanent.

Happiness is created by factors that exist in perpetum, but it is the lazy person that goes after pleasure by indulging in what is temporary because of selfishness and laziness. It is much harder to choose not to indulge and forego pleasure that to choose a path that leads to true abiding joy and happiness. The truly altruistic will not become addicted, and when they eliminate one addiction they will not become addicted to the other. The person who is asleep will be proud when they overcome one addiction, but pride keeps them blind and bound and oft they will not realise that they are addicted to something else, because the ego keeps this hidden from the person that is asleep.

Even large amounts alcohol can be used as medicine to save people's lives, it just has to be used out of love and service, not to indulge the senses.

Processed food as been shown to be addictive, there are food scientists that wok for the major food corporations that design food to be addictive. There is published scientific information that shows that processed hi carb food makes people eat more calories by delaying satiety. In the study of addiction it has been shown that addiction is rarely overcome. Addictions are usually traded for another addiction. An excellent example is food. People who have gastric bypass surgery can no longer indulge in their addiction to food have a good chance that they become alcoholics. People who quit smoking, put on weight, because they trade their tobacco addiction for a food addiction.

This science is very well understood how people trade one addiction for another. This is why heroin addicts are put on methadone.

I'm not saying carbs are bad. I agree that everyone should eat carbs, the ones that exist in vegetables and fruits. But not simply for the carbs but for all the other micro nutrients that are in present in them. I bet that if someone goes without processed carbs, the ones that come in packages that are not strictly fruits and vegetables, they will do nothing to promote health and happiness. You never hear of someone saying that they hangry because they have went too long without some vegetable or fruit.


Well cannon6, again, thank you for bringing up this interesting topic.
"If you save one life you are a hero. If you save 100 lives you are a nurse." Unknown










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#22
[quote pid='570071' dateline='1509384049']
(10-30-2017, 05:20 PM)Adapt-Overcome-Conquer Wrote: [quote pid='570069' dateline='1509373153']

.

[quote pid='570071' dateline='1509384049']
That is a really great point about the energy needed to feed the body and mind--calorie deficits will mess with your well being. If I don't eat simple carbs for a few days I don't feel any effects--because I replace with protein, fats and more complex carbs...but man when I was on this crazy diet like 700 cal a day ...so I would look my best in my graduation photos--I lost 45 pounds in a few months-- I was HANGREEEEEEEEEY!! (hungry+angry) it was hard because majority of our meals/food is based on a simple starch or carb... ie: spaghetti and meatballs--minus the spaghetti, sandwich-minus the bread,  after a few weeks of major calorie deficient- I had less patience, less tact and less humor-- dare I say--I was bitchy.

I was eating heavy protein and fats in the morning and only lean meat and veggies in afternoon and night....god damn...my friends were like --you are a little cranky these days.... Big Grin Cool  most of that weight came back after a few months of eating toast, noodles, muffins and cookies again....

I now realize that extra weight went on slowly and only way to take it off is slowly...without getting hangry that is...no wonder everyone on the alone show is crying and frustrated after a few weeks...1 fish a day ain't enough...hell 10 fish a day ain't enough long term.


AOC
[/quote]





The reason you get hangry is because you are not allowing the physiological processes to occur when you are still eating to loose weight. When one fasts the bio-physiological processes are much different. When you fast very little protein is lost because of a large increase in growth hormone. While eating food, even in small amounts, prevents the physiological changes that occur when one fasts. During an extended fast, there is very little loss of lean mass, whereas in a calorie reduced diet losses are from lean as well as fat mass. The reason you become hangry is because your body is not adjusted to burning fats. It can take a few days for the body to produce the enzymes needed to create a ketogenic state. When you consume protein and complex carbs you are still giving the body glucose. Through gluconeogenesis ample glucose can me made from protein, and it is known that protein, in the absence of carbs, will increase insulin secretion.

Going without food is a natural part of life. It is unnatural to have food available all the time. Think of hunter gatherers, they would go extended periods without food, but survived. Not because they got weak and tired, mad and irrational, but because the lack of food filled them with energy and made the mind sharper. Look again at the physiological changes that happen during fasting. More adrenaline is released, speeding up metabolism, growth hormone is increased to help retain lean mass. The mind becomes very sharp. The physical effects of fasting have been known for over 2000 years. This is why the ancient Greek philosophers would fast to improve mentation. Captured American prisoners in Japaneses prison camps stated that when they were starved their minds became very sharp and they were able to learn a new language, that they had no previous exposure to, in a few weeks.

Contrary to this is reducing calories, you lose weight, but it is regained after. Not only is this not good it is very bad. This is because the weight that is lost is a considerable amount lean mass, not just fat. Then when the weight is regained, it is regained as fat. This is because reducing calories and possibly more exercise has the effect of lowering metabolism, beyond that which is associated with a lower weight. So even when the weight is lost and people are not eating excess calories there metabolism has slowed so much that it is impossible to keep the weight off no matter how well you eat. Fasting causes adaptation that increases metabolism and conservation of lean mass and using fat for fuel.

Yes protein is burned during a fast, but because of the ubiquitin proteasome system, damage protein structures are consumed by the body, the immune system is also consumed by the body during a fast. This may sound detrimental but it is very beneficial because when eating is resumed the immune system is reformed from stem cells to be stronger than it was previously. Brain tissue is also consumed during a fast, but this is the tau and neurofuibulary tangles that cause dementia. In effect the body cleans out the garbage that accumulates when in the non-fasted state.

I have seen severe dementia patient's who have not eaten, for a weak because of sickness, be able to carry on a simple conversation after convalescing, when before they could not even speak an intelligible sentence. I know this is not proof but it is interesting.

If you look at the hormone largely responsible for hunger, grehlin, it occurs according to circadian rhythms, not because of true hunger. After a few days of fasting grehlin circadian rhythms stop occurring and there is very little rise in the hormone. This does not occur on a calorie reduced diet. There is also a change in many other hormones that does not occur when reducing calories, that does happen in an absence of calories. 

Not everyone should do extended fasting. Most children, pregnant women and severely underweight should not fast.
"If you save one life you are a hero. If you save 100 lives you are a nurse." Unknown










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#23
(10-30-2017, 08:17 PM)Someday_RN Wrote: [quote pid='570071' dateline='1509384049']
(10-30-2017, 05:20 PM)Adapt-Overcome-Conquer Wrote: [quote pid='570069' dateline='1509373153']

.

[quote pid='570071' dateline='1509384049']
That is a really great point about the energy needed to feed the body and mind--calorie deficits will mess with your well being. If I don't eat simple carbs for a few days I don't feel any effects--because I replace with protein, fats and more complex carbs...but man when I was on this crazy diet like 700 cal a day ...so I would look my best in my graduation photos--I lost 45 pounds in a few months-- I was HANGREEEEEEEEEY!! (hungry+angry) it was hard because majority of our meals/food is based on a simple starch or carb... ie: spaghetti and meatballs--minus the spaghetti, sandwich-minus the bread,  after a few weeks of major calorie deficient- I had less patience, less tact and less humor-- dare I say--I was bitchy.

I was eating heavy protein and fats in the morning and only lean meat and veggies in afternoon and night....god damn...my friends were like --you are a little cranky these days.... Big Grin Cool  most of that weight came back after a few months of eating toast, noodles, muffins and cookies again....

I now realize that extra weight went on slowly and only way to take it off is slowly...without getting hangry that is...no wonder everyone on the alone show is crying and frustrated after a few weeks...1 fish a day ain't enough...hell 10 fish a day ain't enough long term.


AOC





.............. The reason you become hangry is because your body is not adjusted to burning fats. It can take a few days for the body to produce the enzymes needed to create a ketogenic state. When you consume protein and complex carbs you are still giving the body glucose. Through gluconeogenesis ample glucose can me made from protein, and it is known that protein, in the absence of carbs, will increase insulin secretion.

Going without food is a natural part of life. It is unnatural to have food available all the time. Think of hunter gatherers, they would go extended periods without food, but survived. Not because they got weak and tired, mad and irrational, but because the lack of food filled them with energy and made the mind sharper. Look again at the physiological changes that happen during fasting. ............... This is why the ancient Greek philosophers would fast to improve mentation. Captured American prisoners in Japaneses prison camps stated that when they were starved their minds became very sharp and they were able to learn a new language, that they had no previous exposure to, in a few weeks.

Contrary to this is reducing calories, you lose weight, but it is regained after. Not only is this not good it is very bad. This is because the weight that is lost is a considerable amount lean mass, not just fat. Then when the weight is regained, it is regained as fat. This is because reducing calories and possibly more exercise has the effect of lowering metabolism, beyond that which is associated with a lower weight. So even when the weight is lost and people are not eating excess calories there metabolism has slowed so much that it is impossible to keep the weight off no matter how well you eat. Fasting causes adaptation that increases metabolism and conservation of lean mass and using fat for fuel.

Yes protein is burned during a fast, but because of the ubiquitin proteasome system, damage protein structures are consumed by the body, the immune system is also consumed by the body during a fast. This may sound detrimental but it is very beneficial because when eating is resumed the immune system is reformed from stem cells to be stronger than it was previously. Brain tissue is also consumed during a fast, but this is the tau and neurofuibulary tangles that cause dementia. In effect the body cleans out the garbage that accumulates when in the non-fasted state.

I have seen severe dementia patient's who have not eaten, for a weak because of sickness, be able to carry on a simple conversation after convalescing, when before they could not even speak an intelligible sentence. I know this is not proof but it is interesting.

If you look at the hormone largely responsible for hunger, grehlin, it occurs according to circadian rhythms, not because of true hunger. After a few days of fasting grehlin circadian rhythms stop occurring and there is very little rise in the hormone. This does not occur on a calorie reduced diet. There is also a change in many other hormones that does not occur when reducing calories, that does happen in an absence of calories. 

Not everyone should do extended fasting. Most children, pregnant women and severely underweight should not fast.
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HEY!! Big Grin  now you are speaking my lingo--thanks for the amazing and concise scientific explanation here, it has really helped me to understand the processes and I'd like to learn more...I am going to re-read about and research fasting and consider what you are saying seriously; I may want to integrate this into my regular routine....
I mean I have gone 6 days without eating anything once....but I was on mind altering substances so did not really feel the effects (negative or positive) and have gone 2 to 3 days while in different emotional states and/or wilderness emergencies...where I was under extreme mental and physical exertion but not on drugs....and actually felt sharper but I thought that was strictly adrenaline...

AOC
"When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."--Thomas Jefferson

"Buy land- they are not making it anymore"- Mark Twain

"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile €”hoping it will eat him last." -Winston Churchill

"Wilderness is in our hearts first and always. All of us can't have a cabin in the mountains. It's the wilderness within we must strive for first."- R. Sullivan
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#24
Has anyone said Pemmican?
"The first law...should be nailed on every cot. The first law. This world's job is to take everything from you. Yours is not to let it."   -Woman and Scarecrow

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