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BOWS
#16
I am concerned.. Did he say furniture grade PVC is good stuff? I have a project where I need decent PVC.. Its nota bow but a cart frame
Message of Insight and Unity 

We go into the wilderness to fulfill our hearts and empty our minds of life's garbage.
The gear we leave behind and the challenges we encounter, 
Are methods we use to cleanse our spirits.
Of Survivalists and Bushcrafters, Primitive Technologists too, we are one.........

It is the wilderness within, we strive for first and always.
Not everyone can have a cabin in the mountains.
The thread that connects us, is fine like silk and strong as steel.
Together, the song of the wilderness is the song we sing!

"And can I say something else?"
Bushcrafting is "doing what you want to do." 
Survival is "doing what you have to do"
Primitive Technology is about all of the above........

By TNRR aka "Survival Sully"
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#17
The grey schedule 80 is a little thinner than schedule 40....... , may have just been an error in typing/communication; and not to be smart, but to clarify . . .  

Here in the U.S. the real thin PVC is the Schedule 20, then what most people use is the thicker Schedule 40, both of which are normally white in color.  The Schedule 80 is normally dark grey, although all the various schedules may be encountered in various colors.  As the numbers increase, the wall thickness also increases as does the maximum containable pressure.  The fitting among all three schedules of the PVC pipes can be interchanges, because the outer diameter remains the same, respectively, for each size of pipe.  As a results of their walls thickness increasing to the inside of the pipe, there is a slight decrease in the fluid carrying capacity of the higher schedule pipes.
Jimbo
If everything is a case for gun control, then nothing is. - Charles C. W. Cooke

Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. - Theodore Roosevelt 1907 
Every immigrant who comes here should be required within five years to learn English or leave the country.  - Theodore Roosevelt 1918

The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. - Harlan Ellison

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the former. - Albert Einstein
I fear the day that technology surpass our human interaction.  The world will have a generation of idiots. - Albert Einstein

The optomist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds; and the pessimist fears that this is true! - James B. Cabell
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#18
(03-19-2019, 04:31 PM)Adapt-Overcome-Conquer Wrote:
(03-15-2019, 12:26 AM)Deerstalker Wrote:
(03-14-2019, 10:07 PM)Adapt-Overcome-Conquer Wrote: I wonder if Brumby our Auzzy Hoodlum has ever been there?

The only Brumbie I've met is from the US - Houston for a while - not sure where he is now?

http://forum.hoodswoods.net/member.php?a...ile&uid=79


ITS YOU---YOU ARE THE AUZZY Hoodlum!!!!

Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin

AOC

Yes, although there have been others over the years - probably still are as guests  Tongue
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#19
(03-20-2019, 03:06 AM)Tn Ridge Rover Wrote: I am concerned.. Did he say furniture grade PVC is  good stuff? I have a project where I need decent PVC.. Its nota bow but a cart frame

Yes he said the furniture grade is more reliable , archer told me it is too , but the only reason we can think of is that it doesn't allow UV light to penetrate and weaken the pipe... If u need help heating andbending the pipe for your cart don't bee a stranger ! Although it's fairly straight forward?

(03-21-2019, 02:00 AM)Jimbo Wrote: The grey schedule 80 is a little thinner than schedule 40....... , may have just been an error in typing/communication; and not to be smart, but to clarify . . .  

Here in the U.S. the real thin PVC is the Schedule 20, then what most people use is the thicker Schedule 40, both of which are normally white in color.  The Schedule 80 is normally dark grey, although all the various schedules may be encountered in various colors.  As the numbers increase, the wall thickness also increases as does the maximum containable pressure.  The fitting among all three schedules of the PVC pipes can be interchanges, because the outer diameter remains the same, respectively, for each size of pipe.  As a results of their walls thickness increasing to the inside of the pipe, there is a slight decrease in the fluid carrying capacity of the higher schedule pipes.

?? oh man , Ya I meant thicker ! You're right!! Thanks for catching that, yes I have some of the thick grey stuff , is much tougher but hard to work with! I use it when I made a travel tube for my arrows , left one at Jims house
"When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."--Thomas Jefferson

"Buy land- they are not making it anymore"- Mark Twain

"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile €”hoping it will eat him last." -Winston Churchill

"Wilderness is in our hearts first and always. All of us can't have a cabin in the mountains. It's the wilderness within we must strive for first."- R. Sullivan
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#20
(03-21-2019, 12:40 PM)Deerstalker Wrote:
(03-19-2019, 04:31 PM)Adapt-Overcome-Conquer Wrote:
(03-15-2019, 12:26 AM)Deerstalker Wrote:
(03-14-2019, 10:07 PM)Adapt-Overcome-Conquer Wrote: I wonder if Brumby our Auzzy Hoodlum has ever been there?

The only Brumbie I've met is from the US - Houston for a while - not sure where he is now?

http://forum.hoodswoods.net/member.php?a...ile&uid=79


ITS YOU---YOU ARE THE AUZZY Hoodlum!!!!

Big Grin Big Grin

AOC

Yes, although there have been others over the years - probably still are as guests  Tongue

Haha yes but you are THE Aussie hoodlum , classic!
"When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."--Thomas Jefferson

"Buy land- they are not making it anymore"- Mark Twain

"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile €”hoping it will eat him last." -Winston Churchill

"Wilderness is in our hearts first and always. All of us can't have a cabin in the mountains. It's the wilderness within we must strive for first."- R. Sullivan
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#21
Your bows look great, AOC. I'm glad things are going well with your bow making.

This thread is giving me flashbacks because I worked in PVC pipe manufacturing for 10 years, from 1976 to 1986. It's been a while, but I still remember a little about it. Of course, the industry may have changed a lot by now for all I know. We made mostly potable water pipe, 1/2 inch to 10 inch diameter, with various wall thicknesses and pressure ratings, NSF listed.

I think the hammer test in the video is good. We had two tests for strength: an impact test and a burst test. With the impact test, we dropped a steel weight on a sample from a height prescribed for the pipe size. The weight was cylindrical with a conical "nose cone" at the bottom, but the nose was rounded and blunt. The pipe sample (maybe a foot long) was just placed in an angle iron cradle and the weight was hoisted up above it with a rope and pully. The weight was inside a pipe that ran vertically and guided the weight smack dab onto the top of the sample when you let go of the rope. The vertical guide pipe had holes in it at various heights so you could see how high you were raising the weight.

As far as the burst test, it really wouldn't apply to bow making.

All PVC pipe was definitely not created equal. I worked at two small shops the first year and a half of my ten years in the industry. We made some real crap at one of those places. At the best company--the one where I worked for 8 1/2 years---our product quality was inconsistent. With virgin material, we could make the best quality pipe. But we ground up our scrap pipe and used it again. We mixed different proportions of virgin and ground scrap---in general, too much ground scrap made weaker pipe. But pure virgin material could be botched up also to make weaker pipe.

Wall thicknesses are not necessarily consistent and you could end up with some slightly weaker pipe due to it being under spec. Even if it is NSF listed, light wall thicknesses still get by.

When buying PVC pipe, I'd check it visually for a smooth bore. If it's too lumpy inside it is probably a little weaker. Also--and this will probably be rare---I'd look for a deep "burn line." That would be a greenish pin line running down the pipe either on the outside or inside. If it's just on the surface it should not be an issue. But if the burn line goes deep into the wall I would expect that to be a weakness. And if there are any black chucks imbedded in the pipe along the burn line . . . .

Bottom line, though, an impact test is a great idea.

---George
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#22
AOC, that's nice that you guys found a way to use hot water for shaping the PVC pipe. I wish I had a suggestion for you from my experience with PVC pipe, but I don't.

You've seen the belled end pipe, I'm sure, where the bells are used as couplings. To form those we had two types machines called "bellers." The first dipped the end of the pipe into a pot of hot glycerin to soften it for belling. The second type was hot air. The hot air was far better for our process, because, when we had a jam up, there was no danger of hot glycerin shooting all over the place. I got splattered pretty good once . . .just another flashback. But the glycerin did just as good a job of softening the pipe as the hot air. I heard of another plant that used hot peanut oil.

---George
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#23
Like Jimbo wrote, the schedule 80 is grey for better UV resistance. To make the grey pipe, we just used our normal white material and mixed in carbon black powder. Later, we switched to some kind of black ink we mixed in.

---George
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#24
(03-30-2019, 03:45 AM)george of the J Wrote: Your bows look great, AOC. I'm glad things are going well with your bow making.


I think the hammer test in the video is good. We had two tests for strength: an impact test and a burst test. With the impact test, we dropped a steel weight on a sample from a height prescribed for the pipe size.  The weight was cylindrical with a conical "nose cone" at the bottom, but the nose was rounded and blunt. T


All PVC pipe was definitely not created equal. ---------in general, too much ground scrap made weaker pipe. But pure virgin material could be botched up also to make weaker pipe.  

Wall thicknesses are not necessarily consistent and you could end up with some slightly weaker pipe due to it being under spec. Even if it is NSF listed, light wall thicknesses still get by.

When buying PVC pipe, I'd check it visually for a smooth bore. If it's too lumpy inside it is probably a little weaker. Also--and this will probably be rare---I'd look for a deep "burn line." That would be a greenish pin line running down the pipe either on the outside or inside. If it's just on the surface it should not be an issue. But if the burn line goes deep into the wall I would expect that to be a weakness. And if there are any black chucks imbedded in the pipe along the burn line . . . .

Bottom line, though, an impact test is a great idea.

---George

Hey George, thanks for the kind words and ---you have already helped me in the process by telling me about the burn lines, bumpy pipes and imbedded chunks---I did not know that---especially that bit about companies using ground up scraps!!!!

THAT right there could be the answer to why some pipes are brittle and some are not! I may have to do that one day---if they stop selling schedule 40 pipe, all PVC is now being replaced on store shelf's with pex pipe...

I'll tell you man the joys of bow making are multiplied using PVC pipes...ok ok the raw product isnt anywhere near as attractive as wood...but as I mentioned---took me 3 months to scrape my board bow down and tiller it....takes me 3 hours with a pvc bow. Also, I can do things I never dreamed of ---for example...last Saturday I made a childrens bow for one of my nephews---it was eight inches shorter in length than my normal (48") bows I make....it was suppose to be around 20 lbs at 20".

I guess when pressing it I was careless in placement of the jig because one limb turned out much thicker than the other, thereby making the tiller quite un even, one limb was bending a lot, while the thicker limb was very stiff.

I took it downstairs to the "lab" and tried for a few hours, heated the thin limb and tried to widen the taper........heated the thick limb and tried to smash down the taper....until I finally got it PERFECT...

if that was a wood bow with too much material taken off 1 limb...it would have been beautiful garbage is all....

Here it is, 25# at 21"


.jpg   DSCF0125.JPG (Size: 52.95 KB / Downloads: 5)

it bends and shoots REAL nice, but its rather difficult for me to take a pic while drawing the bow aahaha...so ill ask Joe to snap one later of it in action!

IMO PVC bows are the embodiment of Hoodlum and AOC mentality....they represent making a deadly weapon, out of 5$ plumbing pipe.....well be set for materials in the apocalypse....the problem (as Ishi said) will be the arrows LOL

I can easily make 50# bows that are legal and sufficient for hunting Elk, Moose, bear.....not that id ever try that crazy shit...bear anyways,,,hahah


AOC
"When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."--Thomas Jefferson

"Buy land- they are not making it anymore"- Mark Twain

"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile €”hoping it will eat him last." -Winston Churchill

"Wilderness is in our hearts first and always. All of us can't have a cabin in the mountains. It's the wilderness within we must strive for first."- R. Sullivan
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#25
(03-30-2019, 01:56 PM)Adapt-Overcome-Conquer Wrote: ---took me 3 months to scrape my board bow down and tiller it....

DS - sounds like you need some power tools for your next birthday? Rolleyes

IMO PVC bows are the embodiment of Hoodlum and AOC mentality....

 DS - I think so   Shy

I'd not really given much thought to PVC in this context, thanks for your reports & good luck with the next prototype AOC Smile
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#26
I had some time to waste so I watched a few YouTube videos on PVC pipe making this morning. I was surprised how little the process has changed over the years. Sure, there are some fancier control panels and a few other superficial advances, but the core equipment is the same as it was in the 1970s. The material could be formulated better today; that wouldn't show in the videos so I don't know.

Anyway, I would except variation in the product quality to be about the same as 40 years ago. Heck, with today's low unemployment rate and companies cutting way back on staffing, the quality might be even more inconsistent. So I'd say the impact test is key.

George
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#27
(03-31-2019, 08:22 PM)george of the J Wrote: I had some time to waste so I watched a few YouTube videos on PVC pipe making this morning. I was surprised how little the process has changed over the years. Sure, there are some fancier control panels and a few other superficial advances, but the core equipment is the same as it was in the 1970s. The material could be formulated better today; that wouldn't show in the videos so I don't know.

Anyway, I would except variation in the product quality to be about the same as 40 years ago. Heck, with today's low unemployment rate and companies  cutting way back on staffing, the quality might be even more inconsistent. So I'd say the impact test is key.

George

Man once a person is woke up--you see the signs everywhere...hahah

what you just said  "I was surprised how little the process has changed over the years. Sure, there are some fancier control panels and a few other superficial advances, but the core equipment is the same as it was in the 1970s. The material could be formulated better today.........................Heck, with today's low unemployment rate and companies  cutting way back on staffing, the quality might be even more inconsistent"

Ain't that the truth with almost everything---for shit sakes were still generating power with nuclear, which is basically a glorified steam engine!!!! You touched on a key piece of info there, unrelated to bow making but related to the world...we HAVE THE ABILITY to formulate things better and be more efficient ect these days but for some reason we dont! (not an accident, were being prevented from reaching our full potential) 

we havent seen significant advancements since Nikolai Tesla!!

AOC
"When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."--Thomas Jefferson

"Buy land- they are not making it anymore"- Mark Twain

"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile €”hoping it will eat him last." -Winston Churchill

"Wilderness is in our hearts first and always. All of us can't have a cabin in the mountains. It's the wilderness within we must strive for first."- R. Sullivan
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